[Mpls] Bullying

Thu Nov 11 12:57:43 CST 2004

Thanks.
   School was such a nightmare for a lot of people - the only reason I 
stayed in school and didn't run was because of people like those I 
discussed, and many more.
   If you didn't notice, I had the benefit/pleasure of having 3 Teachers of 
the Year, 2 of them National.  That was in both public (K-9) and private 
schools.  I consider myself blessed to have had such a great education - 
even if I haven't made as good a run of it as I probably should/could have.
   It does no good to point fingers.  It starts at home.

-K

>From: Chris Johnson <issues at chaska.org>
>To: "Kenneth J. Peterson" <kennethjpeterson at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bullying
>Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:29:43 -0600
>
>Great post.  Mr. Atherton seems to frequently submerge common sense (there 
>are no role models) to fit his ideology (Minneapolis "liberals" -- what are 
>they, anyway? -- are all bad and always wrong).  Role models had more 
>effect on my life than any other thing.  I bet it's that way for most kids.
>
>Regards,
>Chris Johnson
>Fulton
>
>Kenneth J. Peterson wrote:
>>Shawn,
>>Good Morning!
>>   You are clearly on the right side of this argument.  Mr. Atherton 
>>doesn't seem to have a lot of faith or belief that positive role models 
>>exist at all, and even if they did they wouldn't make a difference.
>>   When ** I ** was growing up - also during Vietnam, Nixon, SLA, etc. - 
>>there was such an anti-establishment attitude everywhere - in the schools, 
>>advertisements, music, everywhere.  It was sometimes difficult to see a 
>>positive side to life in general while being bombarded with such 
>>negativity.
>>   But there were people like my 3-6 grade music teacher, Mrs. Sanger, who 
>>has the ability to get those young kids involved, not only in listening to 
>>and enjoying the music, but also listening for each instrument and 
>>learning what each sounded like, looked like - even the history of the 
>>instrument.  Hands on experience in the classroom were a daily event.  She 
>>was National Teacher of the Year when I was in Fourth Grade.
>>   There was John Rose, who was my Phys Ed. teacher, again 3-6th grader.  
>>A strict disciplinarian, but a very effective, friendly, and memorable 
>>instructor.  He not only gave us the opportunity to get some of the energy 
>>out and give our teachers a break - he taught us teamwork, discipline, how 
>>to play fair, how to *** resolve our disputes ***, and introduced us to 
>>things like how good you feel when you develop a daily workout routine, 
>>the benefits of participating in organized sports, and how the lessons 
>>learned from that participation benefit you in other areas of your life.  
>>He was elected Senator in the State and was very helpful to me in my 10th 
>>grade research project on the debate about financing and location of the 
>>HHH Metrodome
>>   There was my 8th grade civics teacher, Mr. Robert Astrup,who taught me 
>>the importance of active participation in local politics, directed me in 
>>things life the YMCA's Youth in Government and my report (A+) and outline 
>>on the Declaration of Independence, US Constitution, and Bill of Rights.  
>>He later became the head of the MEA and, I believe, also a local 
>>politician.
>>   And there was Robert Heyer, who was my 6-9th grade science teacher - 
>>and also the State and National Teacher of the Year.  His ability to get 
>>his message to the kids was incredible - using a style that included 
>>comedy, self-deprecation, hands-on involvement, and just enough threat of 
>>imminent destruction - "what do you think would happen if we mixed bleach 
>>with ammonia" (kids: DON"T TRY THIS AT HOME!!!) that had every kid in 
>>school trying to get into his class, and then looking forward to that hour 
>>every day.
>>   Sure, role models play a HUGE part in the growth, discipline and 
>>education.  It definitely starts at home, but the presence of positive 
>>role models in the school provide a comfortable environment for learning 
>>and a sense of security.  After-school programs give students a reason to 
>>look forward to the afternoon, give them a sense of belonging, introduce 
>>them to friends that they otherwise would probably not meet, teach them 
>>the benefits of teamwork and, thus, how to get along in the neighborhood 
>>(keeping them out of gangs, hopefully), and how to be productive citizens.
>>   You know I don't have children.  But that doesn't mean that I sit back 
>>and let things happen in our schools without paying attention, even 
>>becoming actively involved in those decisions.  I may have children some 
>>day, and I want to ensure that everything is as "in place" as possible to 
>>guarantee a good education, a safe environment, and a competent staff of 
>>teachers and (fewer) administrators.  I would hope that Mr. Atherton sees 
>>this as well.
>>   He does, state, however, that he has no intention of sending his 
>>children to Mpls. Public Schools.  Perhaps he didn't notice that you had 
>>taken Gracie out of them as well, one of the reasons being the bullying 
>>that we are discussing here.  I would hope that he (and others) reading 
>>these posts realize that there are alternatives to MPS that don't include 
>>Blake, Breck, Holy Angels, Talmud Torah, etc.  Schools like IDDS and 
>>Kennedy Center Alliance for Arts Education are excellent alternatives, 
>>which are providing better educational results than MPS, at the same cost.
>>   Keep fighting the good fight.
>>   Looking forward to finding out:  Is Superman really dead?  ;-)
>>
>>Kenneth J. Peterson
>>Downtown
>>
>>
>>From: "Shawn" <schristenson3 at mn.rr.com
>>To: "Michael Atherton" <athe0007 at umn.edu, <mpls at mnforum.org
>>Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bullying
>>Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:49:52 -0600
>>
>>Clearly we are having a huge miscommunication here, Michael.   If you want
>>to discuss it more I am more than willing to email off The List.  Thanks.
>>
>>Sorry, List, that I did get personal.
>>
>>Shawn Marie Christenson
>>Central - Downtown/West
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Michael Atherton" <athe0007 at umn.edu
>>To: <mpls at mnforum.org
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 5:30 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bullying
>>
>>
>>  Shawn Marie Christenson wrote:
>>
>>   I disagree.
>>
>>  Well, that's certainly your right, but don't expect
>>  anything to change because your values, rationalizations,
>>  and expectations are the same as the people who are
>>  running the schools.
>>
>>   It IS exactly about role models - which includes
>>   the parents, peers and school administrators you wrote
>>   of - and yeah, even the President. Kids learn A LOT from
>>   the people around them.  ALL of the people around
>>   them.
>>
>>  When has it been different?  When I went to school we
>>  had Lynden Johnson and Richard Nixon, the LAPD and
>>  the SLA.  Today in Minneapolis we've got Phyllis Kahn
>>  and the people who voted for her (60% of her district).
>>  Just what period of history do you want to select that
>>  was dominated by positive role models?
>>
>>  What controls bullying in the schools is enforcement
>>  and sanctions, not positive role models.  The Golden
>>  Rule of Social Dynamics:  You can't regulate behavior
>>  without accountability.  Sympathy, empathy, and understanding
>>  are not enough.
>>
>>   And don't you think things like more money for
>>   schools, programs and support might help take the
>>   pressure off some of those people?
>>
>>  Take the pressure off which people?  The teachers? The parents?
>>  The administrators?  The kids?  You think that more money
>>  for after school programs is going reduce bullying?  I don't
>>  think that you understand the social dynamics of bullying.
>>
>>   I'm NOT shocked, Michael.  I'm unhappy that you place the
>>   blame on others but at the same time don't see your own role
>>   as a Minneapolis citizen as having being able to have some
>>   impact on those around you.  We can do a lot of things in
>>   this world, but who we ARE is what the kids are really looking
>>   at.
>>
>>  So you try to place the blame on me!?  I think that you are
>>  seriously misguided.  This is a standard liberal tactic to
>>  distribute blame and not focus on the real causes of the
>>  problem.  I don't believe that we're all in this together.
>>  If you want to accept the blame for bullying then that's your
>>  business.  I live what I believe is a principled life and that
>>  I am a positive role model and I have no intentions of sending
>>  my children to the Minneapolis Public Schools.
>>
>>  Michael Atherton
>>  Prospect Park
>>
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