[Mpls] ...Long before we heard of "E85", over a decade

[WJKAHN at aol.com]

Peter Vevang is mistaken in quoting Loki Anderson. Mr. Anderson inexplicably 
reposted Gary Hoover's post in it's entirety twice with no additional 
commentary. I agree with Vevang that supporting farmers going into ethanol is 
important and the right thing to do, but add that we may have passed the point where 
any subsidy makes sense for E-85, i.e., the new industry may be at the point 
where it can survive on its own in competing with conventional gasoline blends 
with petroleum or ethanol based oxidizers. I disagree with Vevang and Hoover 
that we need a "sustained political effort" to bring about sustainability or 
that the present regulatory structures for development and redevelopment somehow 
perpetuate unsustainable construction. Unquestionably, codes and practices 
must be and have been tweaked to accommodate new technology as it has been again 
and again since the "1940's" and will continue to adapt, but what will drive 
sustainable practices in the construction and energy industries is demand. 
Demand, demand, demand sustainability and don't settle for anything but and we 
will see change in these industries. Government can be increasingly restrictive 
in dictating sustainable practices in any industry, but as Vevang points out 
there is money to be made. There is probably tax revenue to be lost in 
micromanaging any particular industry from City Hall. Of course, guidelines are a 
different story and if one wishes to apply pressure, this is the way to go, they 
way we have gone. As far as sustainable lifeways go, try parking your cars and 
place an immediate demand on the Met. Council to improve mass transit. Shop 
locally and work for transit oriented businesses. The way to put the screws on 
the big wheels of industry is to demand that they serve you in sustainable ways: 
write letters, make different choices, give some things up.

As far as David Shove's contribution to the thread (like my own, it is plain 
to see the great value of most posts from Shove through careful reading), 
Greens are powerless for a reason; a reason that I pointed out and a sore spot as 
Shove's post attests: most of them left the Democratic Party in frustration to 
bring about the changes that many of us want, and they lost any chance of 
success in doing so. They weaken the position of any sustainability minded 
Democrats, Republicans, or Independents; and the Cassandra-like whining actually 
undermines any hope of bringing needed change. I don't recall or accept the 
premise that I said any particular evil, aside from undermined environmental 
protections, has been brought about by Greens; I'm content to lay any blame for evil 
on the human species as a whole, but tempted to lay it pretty thick on 
certain scribes in Roseville or other suburbs further out.

Bill Kahn
sustaining myself BAP in Prospect Park